Slim pickins, but maybe someone here will find themselves in one of these areas (with boat in tow)...
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=PA
I hope this list continues to grow.
From what I have read and heard regarding outboard motors. you should not mix non ethanol gas with ethanol gas once you have started using the ethanol gas....
Quote from: docirv on March 02, 2010, 09:23:58 PM
From what I have read and heard regarding outboard motors. you should not mix non ethanol gas with ethanol gas once you have started using the ethanol gas....
Doc
This is right from Mercury Outboards site :
"It is probably better for a boat owner to fill the fuel tanks with ethanol fuel for the first time when the tank is low on fuel, but that is not critical. There should be no difficulties if the tank is clean and free from water. Ethanol and MTBE should be compatible with each other chemically."
MTBE being the oxygenator in gasoline that ethanol is replacing.
Any Outboard built after 1990 is built using components that are made to be ok with using ethanol fuel.
now i'm confused.
:tongue:
Quote from: fishinjim on March 02, 2010, 10:31:14 PM
now i'm confused.
:tongue:
Why ?
10 % ethanol fuel has been around for a while now. Does no harm to any of the outboards produced since the early 90's. All of the rubber or poly hoses/fitttings/gaskets in the engines and fuel systems are made to handle the 10 % ethanol fuel now being used.
Ethanol replaced the MTBE in gasoline that is used as an oxygenator.
The only difference is that ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it will attract water.
But, any water in your fuel tank is going to be trouble, whether it is in Ethanol or non ethanol gas.
If you use stabil regularly when you fill your tanks, you should not have any water problems.
Quote from: Basscat7 on March 02, 2010, 10:38:22 PM
Why ?
10 % ethanol fuel has been around for a while now. Does no harm to any of the outboards produced since the early 90's.
If you use stabil regularly when you fill your tanks, you should not have any water problems.
I guess its because of all the reports of people saying they've had outboard trouble because of the ethanol... problems that didn't seem to exist before ethanol.
Are these all false claims, or are they only exclusive to older motors? I'm sure many are from people who used no additives and dealt with the water/phase seperation and learned the hard way that they needed something along the lines of stabil, but those problems will occur with a gas tank and motor of any year. I thought the problems were from the water in the tank, not the actual ethanol being burned or run through the engine.
Either way, I wouldn't mind having some gas in the tank that I didn't have to worry about that water seperation with. ie... ethanol free.
...and I'd probably still use marine stabil. lol.
The " ethanol monster " LOL :grin:
If you run stabil you will have no problems. The ethanol is 10 %.
Phase separation can occur, but there has to be water present already in the tank for the separation to occur after sitting. If the water is there, even with non ethanol gas, you are going to have problems.
The ethanol fuel will not phase separate unless there is water already present in the tank, if there is water, it will be drawn in to the ethanol until the saturation point, then it will separate, the ethanol and water dropping to the bottom of the tank and the gas on top.
Most of the problems you " hear " about are not caused by the ethanol gas, but by the water in the tanks......water + gas + spark/fire = problems. They would occur with or without the ethanol fuel. But , the ethanol becomes the easy scapegoat.
Easiest way to stop worrying about it is to keep a bottle of stabil in the truck, and each time you fill up, add a couple ounces, wouldn't hurt to have a bottle of Merc Quick Kleen either and add a coupe ounces every fill or every other fill.
No stations are allowed to sell fuel with more than 10 % ethanol. Anything over 10 % has to be labeled as " Alternative Fuel ." E -85 is one, not many places will have it, not many cars can run it.
Good info, thanks Stan.
Quote from: Basscat7 on March 02, 2010, 11:40:49 PM
The " ethanol monster " LOL :grin:
If you run stabil you will have no problems. The ethanol is 10 %.
The monster still scares me. lol. I have my cloak of protection (stabil), and use it all the time, I just don't like him around. lol.
Did a little poking around last night. One thing I did come across was that, as Doc mentioned above, mixing MTBE gas with ethanol can lead to problems. Specifically, a sludge like build up that will run through your fuel system causing poor engine performance.
Another thing is the adverse effects of the cleaning agents in the ethanol... can cause erosion in fuel line and related parts.
Quote from: Basscat7 on March 02, 2010, 11:40:49 PM
The ethanol fuel will not phase separate unless there is water already present in the tank, if there is water, it will be drawn in to the ethanol until the saturation point, then it will separate, the ethanol and water dropping to the bottom of the tank and the gas on top.
Most of the problems you " hear " about are not caused by the ethanol gas, but by the water in the tanks......water + gas + spark/fire = problems. They would occur with or without the ethanol fuel. But , the ethanol becomes the easy scapegoat.
Its the tendency that the ethanol has to draw in water thats the issue. This is the characteristic that causes all the problems. If ethanol didn't have this ability, most of this wouldn't be a problem, and one wouldn't have to run stabil or additives all the time... or as much/to the same degree.
Another thing I came across is the inconsistency in the amount of ethanol found at the pumps. Unless you are checking with a tester kit every time you fill up, theres a chance that your filling with a blend that is more than 10%.... hopefully, your lucky and its less, but I'd rather not have to worry either way.
Merc engines are built to run no more than 10% ethanol. Fill up with a mixture that is any more than that and the warranty is void.
I'd feel a lot better if engines were being built to specs with tolerances up to 20%... especially with the push for E85.
I'm not necessarily worried about it. I always run stabil, quickleen, and seafoam. Did the same on the champ and added an external water filter too. It'd just be nice if it wasn't an issue in the first place.
Ethanol is only going to " draw " water that is already in the tank..........you have other problems than the ethanol if you are getting water in your tank.
Ethanol does not magically draw water into your fuel.
No refineries produce gas with more than 10 % ethanol...................it is costlier to produce the ethanol than it is to produce straight run gasoline.
I would venture to bet that most are not even 10 % :grin:
On the " sludge "
Ethanol does not produce any sludge, what it will do is actually clean out any sludge that is already deposited in your fuel lines, this is the Monster you hear about.
It will loosen the sludge /deposits that have already been built up, and thus your fuel filters will get clogged.
Would happen eventually, only slower with non ethanol gas.
Quote from: Basscat7 on March 03, 2010, 01:31:24 PM
On the " sludge "
Ethanol does not produce any sludge, what it will do is actually clean out any sludge that is already deposited in your fuel lines, this is the Monster you hear about.
It will loosen the sludge /deposits that have already been built up, and thus your fuel filters will get clogged.
Would happen eventually, only slower with non ethanol gas.
I'll have to research this more. The couple things I read seemed to say the sludge was the result of mixing the two types of gas, not just a result of using ethanol... though I can see it happening eventually either way. I was under the impression that they were talking about a chemical reaction between the MTBE and the ethanol. Maybe they were just saying that the ethanol speeds up the "cleaning" process.
Quote from: Basscat7 on March 03, 2010, 01:28:18 PM
Ethanol is only going to " draw " water that is already in the tank..........you have other problems than the ethanol if you are getting water in your tank.
Ethanol does not magically draw water into your fuel.
No refineries produce gas with more than 10 % ethanol...................it is costlier to produce the ethanol than it is to produce straight run gasoline.
I would venture to bet that most are not even 10 % :grin:
Good to know about the %.
Far as water in the tank... if there is air in your tank, theres going to be
some moisture. :grin:
Quote from: fishinjim on March 03, 2010, 01:57:25 PM
Quote from: Basscat7 on March 03, 2010, 01:28:18 PM
Ethanol is only going to " draw " water that is already in the tank..........you have other problems than the ethanol if you are getting water in your tank.
Ethanol does not magically draw water into your fuel.
No refineries produce gas with more than 10 % ethanol...................it is costlier to produce the ethanol than it is to produce straight run gasoline.
I would venture to bet that most are not even 10 % :grin:
Good to know about the %.
Far as water in the tank... if there is air in your tank, theres going to be some moisture. :grin:
Yea, but not like the old days with metal tanks. These poly tanks really don't condensate much at all........stiil it is best to keep the tanks as full as you can to eliminate any condensate.
I treated my fuel last season before packing it up.... I was planning on adding Stabil when i ran it for the first time this year... Now since i treated it last year with the Stabil and the Quick Kleen will adding more stabil to these tanks cause any issues? in otherwords is it bad to add more stabil then needed based on fuel in your tanks?
I use regular Stabil and Quickkleen every fill. Is there any benefit to switch to Marine Stabill?
Quote from: Xm Sean on March 03, 2010, 03:00:41 PM
I treated my fuel last season before packing it up.... I was planning on adding Stabil when i ran it for the first time this year... Now since i treated it last year with the Stabil and the Quick Kleen will adding more stabil to these tanks cause any issues? in otherwords is it bad to add more stabil then needed based on fuel in your tanks?
Don't add a full dose of stabil like you did when you treated it for winter. 25 % of that.
Quote from: Eli on March 03, 2010, 03:05:06 PM
I use regular Stabil and Quickkleen every fill. Is there any benefit to switch to Marine Stabill?
I believe the marine stable was created to help with the phase separation caused by ethanol... as opposed to regular stable which helps with gas/octane breakdown???
Before my first outing, I was going to top off my tanks with some 93 octane with the stabil/quikleen/seafoam that I always do.
Quote from: fishinjim on March 03, 2010, 03:58:15 PM
Quote from: Eli on March 03, 2010, 03:05:06 PM
I use regular Stabil and Quickkleen every fill. Is there any benefit to switch to Marine Stabill?
I believe the marine stable was created to help with the phase separation caused by ethanol... as opposed to regular stable which helps with gas/octane breakdown???
Before my first outing, I was going to top off my tanks with some 93 octane with the stabil/quikleen/seafoam that I always do.
Yes on the Marine stabil.
That is what I do, first outing, top off the tank with Hi test.
Of course, with a portable tank, I put the over winter gas into my truck and mix it with fresh and than fill with only fresh gas for the outboard.